May 27, 2022


Erica: What are microplastics? And how can something so tiny have such a vast impact on our ecosystem? That's what we'll discuss in this episode of the podcast by the University of British Columbia Cluster for Microplastics, Health and the Environment. In this episode, we'll discuss the dangers that microplastics pose for human health and the environment, some steps that the Microplastics Cluster is taking to tackle this global challenge, and what you can do to make a difference. Take a listen.


Maite: Hi. I'm Maite Maldonado. I'm a professor in the Department of Earth, Oceans and Atmospheric Sciences. I'm interested in how microplastics are being sourced to the ocean, how they cycle once they enter the ocean, how they might affect the food web, and us eventually. And what's the ultimate fate of microplastics in the environment? 

Sepideh: Hello. I'm Sepideh Pakpour. I'm an Assistant professor at the school of engineering. I'm interested in microplastics to understand what are the main sources to get them into the indoor and outdoor air, how they can get into a human body, and what would be their effects on human health and cognition.


Erica: Thanks. Thanks to both of you. Well, let's start by talking a little bit for our listeners about what microplastics are so, Maite - What is a micro plastic?

Maite: Plastics between one micron - Yes, to remind the listener, a micron is a thousandth of a millimeter - so yeah, microplastics are one micron to five millimeters in size, and micro-plastics are manmade. And they are many types of plastics. So all these different type of plastics can become microplastics as they degrade in the environment, for example. And I think the size is important because it depends on the size these plastics are going to transport in different ways, by different processes, in air, in soils, in water. So the size is very important because it's going to affect how they microplastics. For example, the plastics get to, let's say, the ocean. And then once they into the ocean, how they circulate in the ocean, whether they sink to the sediment or they stay in suspension or they get transferred to lower trophic organisms in the water column and eventually maybe fish and eventually us. So the size is really important for how they, for their fate, and also the impact that they can have, for example, on humans, on organisms in the marine environment. I think studying the macro - the big ones - it's easy, you can see them at the beach and so on. As you've seen in the pictures, they kind of strangle organisms and so on. But I think the effect that microplastics can have are obscure. That's what we are trying to understand. So that's why there is a lot of research ongoing on the impact of microplastics because we really don't think we understand completely.

Sepideh: As Maite mentioned, we do have this definition of the microplastics to be smaller than one micrometers to five millimeters, but as we know that we don't have a proper definition for them. So there are scientists working on to actually clarify the definition for the microplastics and understand, then actually use the proper definition for them. And why the sizes matter - because as they grow smaller, they can travel more faster, they can travel more distances, and as human get exposed to these smaller particles, they can actually even, when you're talking about 100 micrometer plastics, it can deposit into the mucous structure of the different part of the body. But when they get into the micro levels, they have the chance to get into the circulatory system. And even if they are at the nanoscale, they have the chance to actually go into the different organs, like brain or into the placenta that data shows. So again, we do have this definition for microplastics, but there needs to be better definitions to actually to be more correct and precise.


Erica: That's really helpful Sepideh. So on the health side, what are some of the questions that you're asking related to microplastics these days?

Sepideh: We do worry about them, but there are not many data available. So we know that the plastics have been around humans for almost, from 1907. So it's a new phenomenon and we were all excited about having plastics around because they were helpful for humans. But then after a while we recognize that micro-plastics are problematic and it's a pollution, and then we got into the pollutions that micro and nano plastics would arise. How they impact health is not much known because again, it goes back to the definition of the microplastics. It's not only the size of them, it's the shape of them, it's their community and we really don't know how they can impact health. There are a few studies and they show that they can have adverse effects, but what we want to actually do is do a systematic study to understand what type of micro and nano plastics do we have in different habitats? Mostly, what type of plastics do we breathe if we are sitting in our living room, what type of micro and nano plastics do we breathe when we are running in a park and actually do our exercises, and if any breathing happens, how they end up going to - do they deposit in the lungs? Where do they deposit? Do they get into the circulatory system or not? And then we take it from there. If they get into the circulatory system, we are interested to understand if it affects brain functionality, if it affects cognition of the individuals. So there are several questions that we are interested to tackle and the main purpose is to figure out - What is the risk of exposure to these micro plastics, mostly through air inhalation?

Maite: Yeah, I think also in addition to everything that Sepideh said, I think it's also important to think about micro plastic or plastics in general, not just as particles, but also the chemicals that are used to make them. So in addition to, they are a polymer of all these monomers, but in addition to that, there are a lot of additives that are added to the plastics. So to change the colour, or to make it a soft fabric or, you name it. So one of the things that we're trying to understand is how the chemicals, the additives in these microplastics, are also affecting the environment and affecting humans. And so it's not just the size per se or the plastic per se, but all the chemical compounds they have within them.


Erica: So from speaking with both of you about this, it's clear that microplastics is a systems level problem that has all of these multidisciplinary layers and components, and that is affecting the oceans and the air and the land and our bodies. I want to take a minute to talk about how you're both approaching that problem from an interdisciplinary perspective. So you're both members of the UBC Microplastics Cluster. Maite, you are the upcoming lead, following up on Loretta Li who has overseen the first year. And congratulations on getting renewed through the grants for catalyzing research clusters funding. Can you talk a little bit about how the cluster is working together to approach these problems?

Maite: I think what we realize is microplastics research is really new for most of us. Like most of us just started to work on this global problem. And I want to understand, for example, the degradation of microplastics in the environment and how it affects marine ecosystems. But to do that well, I have to reach out to the chemist because they are the ones that can really characterize the microplastics and the additives in a way that I cannot do it. So I see these microplastics research is very very interdisciplinary. And a cluster like this is ideal, because we are making these connections between scientists, between policymakers, between modelers. And it's being fascinating, I'm learning, I feel like I'm a graduate student again, putting all these new things. Yeah.


Erica: So could you give us a bird's eye snapshot of how many people are in the cluster on the research side and what kinds of disciplines are represented.

Maite: We have scientists from civil engineering, from chemistry, from medical sciences, from earth, ocean and atmospheric sciences, from pharmacology, from microbiology and immunology ,from materials sciences, from engineers - we have a bunch of engineers. We have also social scientists involved with things like food security, risk assessment. Am I forgotten any anybody? Sepideh?

Sepideh: No, you covered all of them, actually. Very well.


Erica: I wonder, Sepideh, if we could talk about your particular journey with the cluster. Have you always considered yourself microplastics scholar, or is that a newer thing in your career?

Sepideh: Oh, certainly microplastic is a new thing in my career. And as Maite correctly mentioned actually, this is a new thing for everyone, so I cannot consider myself an expert in this in the micro plastic era. But I had the chance to actually to be one of the members who started this cluster and they started in discussions around it that what are the problems, and again my personal perspective was solely on what type of microbes, what type of microplastics exists in indoor environments, what type of microbes they carry on and how they can impact health. But in the very initial meetings, we raised the problems that we had and for example, on my end, I'm not interested in a single micro plastic because they are a community of them. They have different sizes, they have different materials, they have type of materials, different shapes. It's a community of them. And I had the chance to actually to talk with a chemist as part of the initial group. And he was helpful. He was really helpful, and actually came up with some ideas on how to characterize them. So again, it was very encouraging from the very first day that we started talking about the topic that everyone's are engaging, everyone can help each other and for a bigger goal, that was very exciting. So again, this is growing and expanding a lot and I'm very glad that all these disciplines have joined together and they're helping each other not only learn about = what is this big issue and identify which parts should we focus on, but also helping each other to come up with new technologies for characterization, for isolation, for assessments. And these are all exciting for me as a as junior faculty.


Erica: I'd love to ask both of you a little bit more about how your collaborations within the cluster have unfolded in the first year. So I wonder if either one of you, maybe we'll start with Sepideh, could talk about some of the people you've worked with within the cluster and what it looks like to come together and try to figure out a new interdisciplinary methodology for a question related to microplastics.

Sepideh: So for example, as part of the cluster, we were able to secure an NFRF grant, which is for projects that have high risk and they have high value. And for this specific project, we certainly wanted to understand for the first time how the community of the micro-plastics in BC changes seasonally in indoor spaces and outdoor spaces. We don't have such data at all. And to do so as a person who is a biologist, an aerobiologist, I was able to collect all the air samples throughout the year and at multiple times during the months. But to characterize the community I was lucky to collaborate with Dr. Ed Grant that he's developing these amazing tools to characterize micro and nano plastics in complex environmental samples. And then I personally look for the biofilms that forms on them. And when it comes to biofilms and environmental samples, we recognize that there are in different habitats, they have a different type of microplastics. And I started communicating with Maite and and then she talked about her research, I talked about my research. And this collaboration arised.

So right now we are assessing the biofilm formation on the microplastics that are mostly in air samples. And also we do the same thing on the samples that Maite and her group collected as part of their projects. At the end of our NFRF project, we can say that what would be the optimum airborne air sample collection for our assessment of microplastics. From the methodology development perspective, what would be the best way to characterize microplastics and nanoplastics in these environments? And from the biological part, we can actually tell everyone which systems we do encounter higher concentration of the microplastics in at least in BC. And for indoor environments, which type of offices versus homes versus labs versus cafeterias are more prone to have microplastics. So it's helpful for the policy and management. And then also we will be able to actually open the door. I can't say we can answer all the questions in a year, but open the door to better understand how they can impact health and how much worried should be be.


Erica: Yeah, that's excellent. Thank you. How about you Maite, what are some of the collaborations that have formed through your first year with the cluster?


Maite: I guess I met, we had our wonderful first meeting, I think it was a year ago in the summer, and we weren't put in some rooms to talk to scientists from UBC, and there I made connections for the first time with social scientists that are trying to come up with policy and management strategies for micro plastic pollution. So that was really fascinating, and sortof an eye opener for me to see how they think about microplastics, what are the knowledge gaps that they need to know in order to to come up with the strategies to deal with marine pollution that are good, that are doable. Right. It's not just like, well, here is a problem and this is the best solution. You have to think is the best solution doable? Are people are going to be on board? Is this easy to implement? So looking at that perspective was very, very nice. And I really look forward to their work coming up this year. I also met, like Sepideh, Ed Grant through the cluster. He's a chemist that is using like incredible techniques to characterize microplastics in his lab. And what is amazing I find is that he is actually using machine learning to look at the variables that may affect the degradation of microplastics in the environment. So I actually had a student working on the degradation of Microplastics. And after meeting with him, we sort of shift a little bit because we are going to incorporate machine learning in this degradation project. Which I think is going to be very, very powerful. And I didn't think about this before I met Ed. So Ed has been a wonderful resource and I think he's going to be just great in the coming year.


Erica: Sorry Maite, let me just slow down there for a second. What's the implication of introducing machine learning? What how does that change things?

Maite: So I guess, I just give you an example. We are going to take some microplastics. We're actually, I'm really interested in microfibers more than anything. And that's where we are trying to really investigate in the next four years.

Erica: Microfibers as in clothing?

Maite: Yeah. Anything related like so any clothing like nylon, Ryan, you name it. All of these all these fleace that everybody where are all these hats, athletic? All these fabrics are actually made of plastic except - the natural fibers are wool and cotton. Everything else that we wear is plastic in one form or another. So these fabrics, you put them in the washing machine and they get washed and then every time you, you wash anything, you end up with fibers from many of these fibers makes it to the straight of Georgia, for example.

So we have a huge input of microfibers in in the straight of Georgia coming from laundry. So we are interested in these microfibers because they are about three microns in diameter and about maybe 300 to 700 microns in length. And they enter the environment and they look like a little microscopic algae that little zooplankton would like to eat. So they just consume them and change the nutritional value of their food. Right. Imagine you were eating half of your diet was plastic and the other half of your diet was the proper diet, right? You decrease your nutritional intake by 50%. So we are really interested in microfibers and so we are looking at the degradation of microfibers in the environment. So once they get to the marine environment, how do they they degrade. Like for example, how UV affect their degradation. Do the UV sort of weaken bonds and then you end up with a smaller fiber that is easier to intake. Or does UV promote the leaching of these chemicals that I was talking about, these additives in the microplastics. So we're really interested in the degradation due to UV, salt water, you name it, environmental degradation.

And we're also interested on microbial degradation because that is actually microbes that can use plastics as a organic carbon source to make a living. So we wanted to take some microfibers - so a piece of fleece - and put it in the environment and look at the degradation in a year. We are going to sample every two weeks. And what Ed suggested is in addition to looking at things like, for example, biofilm, which is very important and we knew about, he suggested that we measure continuously things like temperature and light and any variable that you can think about and then you will put it in a computer program where the computer program will be able to link the degradation of microplastic to light or to temperature.

So for example, I expect UV light to be a very important variable on microbial degradation. So these machine learning is going to show us that. So the idea is to look at not only the degradation of the micro plastic, but also all the variables where that microfiber of fleece was set in the environment and look at all the environments around it and and try to look at what are the factors that enhance degradation. So in addition to biofilm, you know, maybe during the summertime, when we do have a lot of UV light, you have an accelerated degradation.


Erica: Yeah, that's fascinating. It sounds like it might have points of connection to what Sepideh was talking about in terms of the seasons. Really interesting. Thank you, Maite. So another follow up I would have is why are nonacademic partnerships important to your work?

Maite: As I said we really want to analyze and understand the success of possible behavioral changes that we want to do through industry and in the consumer sector. So to understand whether we are going to be successful in implementing this measure or this other measure, we really need to talk to them, right. I think it's super important to include the public. I also think that, for example, we've been working with some of the makers of fabrics in my case, and they are really interested because they actually they realize that the consumer is really concerned about the environment and micro plastic pollution. So there is actually a desire to make fabrics that are more environmentally safe, so we've been talking to them. So talking to them, for example, is really good to say, look, you want this additive, this, this and this, maybe this is of all the additives that you add, this is the worst. This is the one that is really affecting the organisms in the marine environment. So can you do without. So again, I don't think we can say, OK, you cannot add any additives, but I think we might be able to identify the ones that are very harmful and maybe come up with solutions for them. And I guess again, we want to really implement the most effective and efficient management strategies for microplastic pollution. So we need to talk to engineers at the wastewater treatment plant, right. Because I may say, look, you need to do this. And they might say, well, this is so expensive, we cannot do that. So again, there is a balance between being effective and efficient and so on. So I think talking to all the partners or interested parties is essential.


Erica: Thank you. Those are very helpful, tangible examples. I wonder if either of you would like to say anything about the role that the cluster plays in training the next generation of scholars and decision makers. How have trainees been involved and in your work with the microplastics cluster so far?

Sepideh: Well, I think it's a very fascinating area for everyone. I have individuals from research associates to undergraduate students with different disciplines - biology, cancer research, microbiology, pharmacology, engineering students, that they got interested in the topic from their own perspective. Actually, they could link it to their own disciplines, and they have started communicating together, defining projects, even sub-projects within the lab, defining capstone projects for undergraduate students in the engineering department, and it's expanding and I love to see that. I love seeing them growing and actually thinking out of the box and coming up with new ideas that may be the main members of the cluster cannot think of, but those ideas come from over at HQPs and that's very, very encouraging and exciting.


Erica: Thanks Sepideh. Now Maite, one question we had talked about in advance, and I want to make sure that I ask you before we wind down, what are some misconceptions about micro-plastics that are out there?

Maite: Many people think about plastics as things that you can see with your eye and they think about when you walk in the beach and you see all these plastics mixed with the sand. And really when you think about plastics in the environment, the microplastic and the nanoplastics are actually very, very important because imagine the surface area when you break up plastic into little, little pieces, you sort of increase the surface area that is in contact with the water for example, in the marine environment. And by increasing the surface area you are increasing the area where you can leach out these chemicals that we are talking about. So, you know, when you think about plastic litter, thinking of the little things is really important. And you know, I think when people think of the North Pacific garbage patch, they might be thinking our big objects floating along the Pacific. And it's not like that. They are microplastic things that you will see if you look under the microscope but probably not with your naked eyes. So that's a misconception. 

Two things that I really think also the listeners should know about that I think is exciting. One is that last April, I guess now it's about a year ago, the Canadian government decided to add the plastic manufacture, they call it plastic manufacture items, as a toxic substance to what they call the 'schedule one' of the 1999 Canadian Environmental Protection Act. And this is really important because this means that the government is going to have is going to have to come up with regulations and risk management measures to address the potential ecological and human risks associated with microplastics. So I feel like this is really putting plastics at the forfront, in the front burner, and a lot of research is going to be needed to develop these good regulations and risk management measures for microplastics.

So I think this is really exciting. And the other thing I don't know if people know is that the United Nations has a program that is zero plastic by I think is by 2030, well have to look into it, and the country that is leading this effort is Canada. So again I feel as Canadian as we actually have a big responsibility when it comes to global plastic pollution. And we really need to try to make a difference. So I'm very motivated by these two things. And I think Canadians should know this.


Erica: And why do you think Canada is particularly well positioned to lead that charge?

Maite: Well, I would say in in terms of ocean coastline, right. We have, along with Russia, we have the longest coastline of any country in the world. So, you know, if a lot of our plastics are ending up in the ocean, we have a huge interest on this because this is affecting all our incredible coastline. And all our northern communities, right. That really depend on seafood, for example, and other organisms for their livelihood. So I personally think we really have a responsibility to our citizens, to our environment, and to the globe in general. So I'm proud that Canada is taking this position. And, you know, I want to be one of the scientists behind this this leading role.

Sepideh: And I would say that everyone that they grab a bottle of water and a plastic bottle of water, and by looking at it, they assume it's a macro plastic. And if they throw it, it will have negative impacts on the environment. That's true. But I want to change the lens and just focus on the water they are drinking. That water has contacted the plastic. There are lots of microplastics in that water and they are ingesting those microplastics. So the lens should be to kind of not only protecting the environment, but also that that bottle of water is affecting their health as well.

Maite: I also think that as individuals, you know, sometimes when when you hear more of these big issues that we have in our society right now, you feel a little bit powerless. Right? You feel like, well, I'm just an individual, I can't make a change. But you'd be amazed what a change you can make. And as consumers really can make a choice, too, about how we buy things. And so I would tell people to think twice, you know, when you can make a difference in little things, go for it. And also, there are a lot of things you can get involved in - cleaning the seashore or other, there's a lot of activism right now going on, and you can get involved and get empowered. And it's amazing. 

And one of the very interesting talks I enjoyed in the last year from the cluster was a talk from my graduate student I think it was that worked on an app to record plastic pollution in the city. I think they were focused on masks for COVID this last year. And in essence, her app is now being used in many different countries and they are sort of tracking plastic pollution across the globe. So this is, you know, a student or a couple of students, trying to do something for fun that is sort of changing and revolutionizing how we might use regular scientists to record plastic pollution. So, you know, you hear these talks and it's really so humbling, and so empowering at the same time. So you know, if you have a desire to help and you care, find others that care like you care and come up with ideas like that, it's so inspiring. So yeah. And the future is in the young people. I always look forward to hearing what amazing ideas they come up with.


Erica: Thank you for listening to the podcast of the University of British Columbia Cluster for Microplastics, Health and the Environment. This cluster brings together an interdisciplinary group of scholars aiming to support the development of informed policies regarding plastics pollution. UBC is situated on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territory of the Musqueam First Nation on the Point Grey Campus and the Syilx Peoples on the Okanagan Campus. 

This episode was produced for the UBC cluster for Microplastics Health and the Environment by Hikma Strategies. I'm your host, Erika Machulak, working with Creative Director Sophia van Hees. This episode includes original music composed by Matthew Tomkinson, the 2022 Hikma Artist in Residence. This score interweaves musical notes and the crunching and clicking of plastic to evoke the omnipresence of microplastics throughout our ecosystem. Matthew holds a Ph.D. in Theatre Studies from the University of British Columbia.



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